Friday, May 20, 2011

HI CUZ 81 Part two - Internet Genealogical resources

HICUZ 81 - Genealogical Resources on the Internet


MLFHS: 192.com lookups

Following my earlier appeal for advice re working forwards on tracing my
Elliot family around the Oldham area, somebody suggested I tried the 192.com
website.

I have found promising leads on their 'electoral register records':
1) Agnes C Gill  Aged 65+  in Lancashire
2) Lena Elliot Aged 65+ in Cheshire
There is also a Lena Elliot in their 'deceased records' section too -
presumably from BMD records.

But what 192.com don't seem to publish are their access charges, unless you
register your email address with them first - I suspect they're more aimed
at businesses rather than occasional family history users!  I seem to recall
a previous request on this group for 192.com look-ups, so wondered if
anybody might have subscription access to this website and would be prepared
to do these lookups for me please?


CRRL Genealogy tips
More tips on how to get the new search interface for Ancestry to work.  I keep seeing the advice to "restrict to exact" on this thread.

To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Subject: Re: [Genealib] Ancestry Library Edition searching


At the top, check the box to match all terms exactly.
Under Name, Last Name, type in Smith, and change to "Restrict to exact."
Under Location, start typing in Pocahontas, choose Pocahontas County , West Virginia , US , and change to "Restrict to exact."
If you check all boxes at the bottom, there are 2,028 matches, including 770 census matches, and there are 17 under the category West Virginia censuses 1860-80.
So there are apparently 17 relevant Smiths in Pocahontas County in 1860.

There is a lot of fine print here and my colleagues don't like the new interface, but there is also much more precision searching available now.

I think Ancestry.com should allow for either Virginia or West Virginia searches.

Subject: [Genealib] Ancestry Library Edition searching

Is anyone having luck with the new search engine/pages of ALE?  I am trying to search census for West Virginia counties in Virginia prior to statehood, but am not given the option of those counties in Virginia , only West Virginia . I thought maybe the database was programmed to handle the state change.  I got  no hits for the surname Smith, when I accepted the Pocahontas County, West Virginia auto fill-in, but 57,000 hits when I just put Pocahontas County with no state-none of the first 100 or so hits were at all relevant. " Pocahontas County Virginia " got no hits. 

MLFHS: St. Ann's, Ashton
I have received some information from a relative here in the US about a
marriage (1860) at St. Ann's Catholic Church, Ashton Under Lyne.   What
puzzles me is that the church is supposedly in 'Charleston'  Ashton?

Could someone tell me where this is, please?

Response -

There seems to be a slight error here. The Genuki gazetteer has St Ann's,
Charlestown, in Burlington Street Ashton under Lyne. The first series 1:2500
(roughly twenty five inches to the mile) Ordnance Survey map has R.C.
Chapel, with schools next door. The gazetteer has a picture, history and
links to various maps for this church.

There are actually two other Charlestowns in the neighbourhood, one in
Blackley and one in Pendleton. The Ashton one is not found in modern
gazetteers.

Additional input on St Anne’s RC Church - St Anne's,
Burlington Street
, Ashton-under-Lyne is a Roman Catholic church. It did have a school but some years ago this was amalgamated with St Mary's and became Our Lady of Mount Carmel on
Holden Street
,
Ashton-under-Lyne. The school rooms are now actually used as a community
centre and other activities. It is off Oldham road and much of the surrounding area has been re-built quite recently. There used to be 2railway stations in close proximity but
Oldham Road
is no longer in use. Charlestown station is still there close to the council offices alongside
Turner Lane
.

I live in Droylsden but grew up in Ashton and many years ago churches
and schools used to put on pantomimes and variety shows in the school
rooms (especially Catholic schools) and I participated in those of St
Mary's and went frequently to St Anne's. Many of my friends and senior
school mates went to St Anne's.

Blackley and Pendelbury are not close to Ashton to my mind. I would say
Blackley about 5 miles and Pendelbury about the same but no St Anne's,
Charlestown there.

Additional on St Anne’s - The Godfrey Edition "Ashton-under-Lyne, 1916" shows Charlestown as a small area just north east of the market place. Roughly it is the northern part of an area bounded on the north by
Wellington Road
, the west by
Oldham Road
,
the south by
Katherine Street
, and the east by
Warrington Street
. I just used major streets still in existence to permit you to use a contemporary A-Z to get an idea of both where and how small Charlestown is/was.


MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research

Am wondering if any of you have or know of someone who has taken a DNA test
for family history purposes. I just sent away for one.  It will report results regarding my maternal line.
 

My male friend in Florida did such a test, but I thought female DNA only
gave the 'tribe' one came from?   a much looser definition- geographical
locations of such genes.

.There was an enquiry/testing  in the Shetland Islands  I believe  of the
male population  some years back. Don’t know if the results were published.

Do let us know what you learn

Additional on DNA testing- As part of a national project, enquiring into the residents of London, a few years ago I and a friend queued to have our maternal DNA "done"
at the Museum of London.

The results showed that we had a "type common to Northern Europe".
Though useful for the project, for genealogical purposes it was
useless. My friend and I believed that we have no family history
connections, not even on common surnames, my mtDNA goes back to
Derbyshire, hers to Berkshire.

So the test was no help at all. I'm afraid I strongly believe this
science is really boys' toys - 'cos females change their surnames
every generation and a one-name-study is not helped by the females!
MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research

-         I've had my DNA done by Family Tree DNA
(http://www.familytreedna.com/Default.aspx).  I was persuaded by a
presentation at the "Who Do You Think You Are" conference in London a couple
of months ago.  They offer various different options, including the male
line (Y chromosome) and female line (mitochondrial DNA) - the first of
course isn't an option for you, presumably lacking a Y chromosome, but if
you want to research your male line they suggest you persuade a close male
relative to have the test.  It's quite expensive to have the initial test
(starts at around £100 and goes up from there, depending on what options you
go for) but once your details are on the database they update you
periodically with any links they've established.

The process seems to take some time, partly because, as I'm a UK resident,
everything had to be posted to & from the US (don't know if this applies to
you).  So far I've done the test and returned it (a few weeks ago), but have
yet to receive any results.

Hope this is useful
MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research

Additional on DNA testing - My husband (who was adopted and does not know his ancestry) and my brother (because I can't get the male Y dna) had theirs done a couple of years ago. June is correct. The mtdna did not show recent relatives, although we got thousands of "matches" because it goes back so far in time. The Y dna showed essentially nothing for my husband and little for my line (which is Mills, Lancashire). If your Y matches don't carry your surname, they are pretty worthless and none of ours did. So basically, it depends on whether anyone related to you had had the test. If not, you will not get any matches. As more and more get tested, the chances will increase and better results should be expected. So if you can afford it for the sake of family history, get the tests! Connie Myers USA PS They now have a new "family finder" test that purports to test for all relatives, not just direct male and female lines. I leave comment on that to others as we have not done it.
MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research
 
I've no credentials at all for commenting on this, apart from being a bit of an inherent skeptic - but here goes anyway.

I might have been supposed to have some credentials what with having a son with a PhD in arcane matters relating to the mathematics of fluorescence based sequencing DNA and having been drawn into, because it appeared for free on one of the lists, a Viking Patrilineal survey that involved me in standing in a long boat and twiddling a cotton bud in my cheek.  (I lied about the longboat, the rest is gospel).

But guess where all that's left me vis-a-vis genealogical DNA-mancy. Sadly still a skeptic.

I'd hoped that the Viking thing might have given me an excuse to jog up the beach at Blackpool intent on ravishing virgins and capturing treasures.  I suppose that plan was doomed to failure on several counts but it foundered anyway when the files of numbers eventually turned and I couldn't draw any conclusions about whether I was a scion of the
Vikings or any other group of warriors or peace-niks, or even skeptics.

What I do know is that our DNA is very thoroughly stirred in the pot as it goes through generations and the individual trail must surely vanish for all practical purposes very soon after you go back much beyond your parents.  Even assuming one's wisdom extends to knowing one's paternity back through time.

The successive dividing, on average, by two and random admixture per generation of our mating trail will very soon have a test tube of stuff that a double-helical homoeopath would approve for sale.

Obviously the part of the world that one's ancestors stayed put in for centuries, assuming that one's parents were the first generation off the boat, or that they only stirred their dna with others who'd also hove in from the same place, will surely leave it's trace in one's genes but if one seeks one's early ancestor it's difficult to see any way that the wet-ware will provide the answer if the hard-copy has been lost.

The specific question here relates to the maternal line where particular rules apply but as I understand it all you can hope to do is to attach yourself to a probably extremely large group of descendants on the way back to a fairly infrequent genetic mutation in a female ancestor's mtDNA.  How would you be able to say that you were the descendant of a
particular individual as opposed to the unknown thousands of other cousins who all traced their maternal ancestry back to an un-definedly distant dodgy copy?

As in various other matters I'd be happy to be proved wrong but I'm still waiting hopefully (in the proper, rather than the oft-used sense), for a convincing explanation or convincing evidence that might lighten my dark thoughts of snake oil salesmen.

MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research


Another response -  I have had my DNA done a number of years ago by FTDNA in the USA and Oxford Ancestors in the UK.

The results from FTDNA (Y) have resulted in a number of matches with the same surname in both the USA and the UK giving me a 99.99% certancy  of being related to a number of people in the USA. This in turn has given me a number of major new leads to our common family several generations ago in the UK. In addition we have been able to pool our total knowledge of past family links which has resulted in some mystery's as well as results.
>>
Furthermore it has resulted in some new friendships conducted via email, and introduced me to a number of web based forums dedicated to my Haplogroup.

The Oxford Ancestors (Maternal Line) was a less comprehensive as the data base of samples is much smaller.

Of the two FTDNA has been the most  informative, and it has provided me with a couple of branches of the family none of us knew existed, and some interesting links as where we as a family may have originated from.

Hope this helps

MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research


Thank you all for your thoughtful and thought provoking replies.

It looks as though I may of put the cart before the horse, ordering before gathering opinions and feedback.  Perhaps I should of written to the forum before sending away for the test!  However, it is done and sent for.

Will be sure to let you all know what I find out.  Very excited here, although it may be years before enough folks are tested.  Time will tell!

As always, am in gratitude to the members of this list.  My membership has given me gifts never dreamed of when I first "signed up."

Exam week at the university. Normally I drop everything in my personal life for seven days or so but such is my interest in my family tree that I can't.


MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research


I am rather late to this subject, due to being on me hold, but I can't resist adding to the general mayhem of opinion. If DNA testing of Maternal Line means testing of mitochondrial DNA then there seems to be a problem as to its utility in a family history context. As I understand it, mitochondrial DNA is simply the software that controls how the cell produces energy from 'food'. Because the chemistry of that process doesn't change, there is no need for the mitochondrial DNA to change. Therefore the mitochondrial DNA remains stable over many generations and only needs to be inherited from one parent and only is inherited from the mother.

So, you only inherit this DNA from your mother; she only from her mother; she only from her mother; and so on. No matter how far back you go this DNA is only from one female ancestor. Also because there is little variation in mitochondrial DNA, those variations are not useful for identifying an individual but are claimed to identify broad racial or tribal types.

The result of these characteristics is that if you go back a few generations so that you have, say, 100 female ancestors 99 may be of one racial type but you may have inherited your mitochondrial DNA from the odd one of different racial type and therefore the result of the test is not merely irrelevant but actually misleading.

So it appears to me that in a family history context mitochondrial DNA testing is not really relevant and can even lead to a wild goose chase. Or am I missing something?

MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research

I have had my DNA done a number of years ago by FTDNA in the USA and Oxford Ancestors in the UK.
The results from FTDNA (Y) have resulted in a number of matches with the same surname in both the USA and the UK giving me a 99.99% certancy  of  being related to a number of people in the USA. This in turn has given me a number of major new leads to our common family several generations ago in the UK. In addition we have been able to pool our total knowledge of past family links which has resulted in some mystery's as well as results.
Furthermore it has resulted in some new friendships conducted via email, and introduced me to a number of web based forums dedicated to my Haplogroup.
The Oxford Ancestors (Maternal Line) was a less comprehensive as the data base of samples is much smaller. Of the two FTDNA has been the most informative, and it has provided me with a couple of branches of the family none of us knew existed, and some interesting links as where we as a family may have originated from.

MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research


Yes, I agree that even if not now, in future it may be of some use.  Unless I am lucky and another has the same sub set of markers on file on ancestry or the Lomas group I want to share this with.

Feels good though to know that I am doing about all I can for "the cause."

All my relatives are from Europe.  Except, allegedly there is an "Indian Princess" that married into the French Canadian connection.  This is an all too common myth with French Canadian ancestry stories.  I have traced my tree from Canada all the way back to France and nowhere do I find any Native Northern Americans, princess or otherwise.  This may at least lay this story to rest.  May not.

MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research


Please don't be downhearted by this. Almost all of the time and money I have spent on the hobby of family history has not led directly to the discovery of a particular ancestor, nevertheless I do not regret any of it. The idea that taking a cotton swab can result in evidence that some, or even only one, of your ancestors followed a particular migration route out of Africa as part of a particular tribal or racial group hundreds or even thousands of years ago is in itself amazing. Even though it does not necessarily provide reliable information that is useful for recent family relationships, surely it can still be good value for money if you find the results interesting?

As usual I have come late to this but I would like to make an oblique comment.

MLFHS: DNA Testing of Maternal Line for Genealogy Research

My interest started when, early in my research, I found that both my
father's parents were illegitimate. (Which, amongst other things, made
their marriage certificate very interesting!) I was reminded of an old
saying, commonly heard when I was a child, "It's a wise man who knows
his own father." This eventually led me to adopt "Cherchez les femmes!" 
as a guiding principle in my research, so much so that I now draw family
trees with the women on top.

Following on from this I found an interest in mitochondrial DNA.
Professor Brian Sykes, an early leader in research on this subject has
written a very interesting book, /*The Seven Daughters of Eve*/ (2001,
ISBN 0-393-02018-5
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0393020185>: Wikipedia
article here) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Daughters_of_Eve>,
in which he states that about 90% of  Europeans are descended from just
seven females of ancient times. I gather that more recent research has
now increased this number to twelve.

I still believe that DNA will not be particularly useful for most family historians until the testing is so cheap that almost everyone elects to have it done.


MLFHS: Restoring old photographs

About a year ago I was pointed in the direction of a site on which members volunteered their expertise in restoring old  photographs. I took advantage of it a couple of times and was very  impressed. Unfortunately I have lost the bookmark and can't remember how to find it again. Can anyone out there help please?


Response -
I wasn't involved in the original postings for this but wondered if the following might be what you are looking for.
>
> _http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,298.0.html_
> (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,298.0.html)
>
> I'd forgotten about this website and found it in my Favourites so  thanks
> for reminding me, I just might give it a go.


MLFHS: Shareware paint.net

Morning all.
  led to this freebie by Which mag., not that that is a guarantee, and I have not tried it yet, Paint.net  is likened to Paintshop, Paintshop-pro and the Gimp but is free - see the blurb....??? http://www.getpaint.net/


MLFHS: What's new in the last few weeks on the Lancashire OPC website
 
Hi listers, here's what's new:

Marriages 1866 to 1868 and 1896 to 1900 from the Church of St
Michael-in-the-Hamlet, in the district of Aigburth, Liverpool

Baptisms 1887 to 1899 from St David, Haigh

Banns 1848 to 1894 from the Church of St Mary, in the district of Knowsley,
Liverpool

Marriages 1813 to 1820 from the Church of St John Haymarket, Liverpool

Burials 1832 to 1856 from the Church of St Paul, Liverpool

Burials 1665 to 1694 from the Parish of Prescot

Baptisms 1828 to 1832, 1854 to 1856 and 1870 to 1875 from St John in the
Town of Preston

Baptisms 1893 to 1936 from St Mary the Virgin in the Parish of Prestwich

Burials 1813 to 1833 from the Church of St Mary, in the Parish of Radcliffe

Baptisms 1871 to 1884 from the Church of St John the Baptist, Toxteth,
Liverpool

Baptisms 1813 to 1842 from the Church of St Mary the Virgin, West Derby,
Liverpool

Baptisms 1915 to 1923 from the Church of St Jude the Apostle, West Derby,
Liverpool

5 May 2011

Marriages 1851 to 1854 from the Church of St Mary the Virgin in the Parish
of Blackburn

Marriages 1854 to 1866 from the Church of St Paul, Blackburn

Marriages 1793 to 1809 and 1847 to 1849 from the Parish of Church Kirk

Marriages 1890 to 1900 from the Parish of Farington

Baptisms 1890 to 1895 from the Church of St John the Evangelist in the
Parish of Great Marsden

Marriages 1673 to 1753 from the Parish of Hoole

Baptisms 1678 to 1711 from St Michael in the Parish of Kirkham

Marriages 1897 to 1903 from the Stowell Memorial Church, Weaste

Go direct to the relevant Parish from here:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html

or search the whole database from here (The searchable database was last
updated on 6th May 2011):
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html


MLFHS: Free Genealogy software for Apple Mac

I'm helping someone who is starting to do family history.  He doesn't have a database at the moment, so I recommended using the free edition of Brother's Keeper  http://www.bkwin.org/   He's just told me that he can't use it as he has Apple Mac.
>
>Does anyone know of any Free genealogy programme which is compatible?

I use Macs but the only software I have ever used is Reunion <http://
www.leisterpro.com>. It is designed exclusively for the Mac and is believed by many to be the best program available on either platform.Unfortunately it is not free or even cheap.

Several software suggestions can be found on...
<http://www.macgenealogy.org/>

Click on the "Mac Genealogy Software" tab. I think PAW2U is similar to MacPAF which was discontinued by the LDS several years ago.

MLFHS: Free Genealogy software for Apple Mac

Try Gramps available from http://gramps-project.org/ it is freeware available for Mac, PC and Linux

MLFHS: Free Genealogy software for Apple Mac

You might also suggest to your friend that they could join a Mac User Group [MUG]. Not necessarily to attend meetings, though they can be informative and fun, but especially the email list for almost immediate help. My London MUG has a member in Australia, and one in Birmingham. Some members are professionals and their problems and solutions often beyond us ordinary folks, but beginners and home users are helped find solutions to their problems.

The Australian lady uses a web based program, and it is possible to put ones tree on Ancestry or Genes Reunited for example without buying a particular piece of software. However, one usually needs some kind of programme, mention has been made of "Reunion" which is solely for Apple, you can more easily share Gedcom data.

MLFHS: The Ships List

(The Ships List is a convenient way to research the ship on which ancestors "crossed the pond.")

I have just stumbled upon this web site and I don't think it is on the tool bar. I have found it very useful re emigration to Austrakia and it may be of help to others.
http://www.theshipslist.com/index.html

also this one which gives the passengers on board. I originally found these manifest on Ancestry but these are free
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/shipping/mig-nsw.htm

MLFHS: The Ships List

The Ships List is on the toolbar (Overseas-Passenger Lists) but the other is not and I will add it. Thanks for spotting this.

HI CUZ 81 Part one - Internet Genealogical resources

HICUZ 81 - Genealogical resources on the Internet
from the postings at the Central Rappahannock Regional Library (CRRL) and from members of the Manchester Liverpool Family History Society (MLFHS).
CRRL posting - An extensive and growing collection of valuable genealogical resources has appeared on the Internet Archive website.

  A partial list may be found at
  [1]http://www.archive.org/details/allen_county

  Included in the series held on the website so far are:

    - US decennial census for 1800 - 1930,

    - Soundex index for the census for 1880 and 1900 (1910 is partially completed),

    - Alphabetical index for service records of US soldiers in the War of 1812,

    - Service records of both Confederate and Union soldiers in the Civil War,

    - Service records of US soldiers in the American Revolution,

    - US passport applications: 1795-1905,

These are raw digitized versions of microfilm reels held by the US National Archives. Each reel has its own webpage which includes an online reader and links which enable downloading the entire digitized reel in various formats.  Each webpage also includes a brief description of the contents of the reel and usually includes information about its place in the larger microfilm series of which it's a member.

This is an extraordinary library resource which lacks human archivists to help us find things.  In an effort to partially fill this lack, we have two new resources:

    - A new mailing list has been created to enable sharing of information and
  expertise regarding how to find records, how the records are organized, etc.

        The   list   is   hosted   by  RootsWeb  and  may  be  found  at

[2]http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Internet_Help/DIGITAL-ARCH
  IVES.html

    - A web page has been created to provide finding guides.

        The   page   is   hosted   by  DonsList  and  may  be  found  at
  [3]http://www.donslist.net/PGHLookups/GuidesM.htm .

  If you are someone who has sent for a record at the National Archives, or someone who might wish to do so, or someone who is interested in accessing these records, or an archivist or librarian, etc., please consider subscribing to the mailing list and visiting the website.  Hopefully the discussion on  the  mailing  list will provide direction and improved understanding for all of us.  From time to time, those who subscribe may wish to assemble what has been learned about specific series into "help" text which can be posted to the website along with improvements to the finding guides there.  The material on the website will be restricted to simple .html files which can be copied and used on any website whose owners wish to host them, e.g. libraries with genealogical holdings.

Please consider cross posting this to other lists where appropriate. Thank you.
References:

  1. http://www.archive.org/details/allen_county
  2.
http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Internet_Help/DIGITAL-ARCHIVE
S.html
  3. http://www.donslist.net/PGHLookups/GuidesM.htm
_______________________________________________
genealib mailing list  genealib@mailman.acomp.usf.edu
http://mailman.acomp.usf.edu/mailman/listinfo/genealib

MLFHS posting - A major new addition at www.lancashirebmd.org.uk takes the total number of records indexed to over 14 million. The new data, which may provide insight into prior Wroe generations near Manchester, is as follows:

503 Births for Oldham RD comprising: Oldham Third (1954-1955)

63,009 Births for Liverpool RD comprising: Walton Park (1934-1957)

13,427 Births for Lancaster RD comprising: Preesall (1937-1969); St. Michael (1837-1937); Warton (1901-1919); Wray (1918-1937)

28,822 Deaths for Hyndburn RD comprising: Newchurch (1837-1895)

9,553 Deaths for Burnley RD comprising: Nelson (1936-1954)

953 Marriages for North Sefton RD comprising: St Marie's on the Sands (2009-2010); Methodist Church Leyland Road (2009-2010); St Philip & St Paul with Wesley SB Scarisbrick New Road (2009-2009); Grace Baptist Church Princes Street (2009-2009); Baptist Church Scarisbrick New Road (2009-2009); St. Teresa RC Church Everton Road (2009-2010); Methodist Church, Liverpool Road (2009-2010); Holy Family RC Church, Brompton Road (2009-2010); Elim Pentecostal Church Manchester Road (2001-2009); Shoreline Church 9 Mornington Road (2009-2010); Methodist and United Reformed Church Lord Street West (2009-2010); Our Lady of Lourdes, Waterloo Road (2010-2010); Christadelphian Hall GF, 51 Part Street (2009-2009); Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints (2009-2010); Kingdom Hall, 30 Duke Street (2009-2010); St. John Stone's RC Church, Sandbrook Way (2009-2010); St Jerome's RC Church, Wicks Lane, Formby (2009-2010); Our Lady of Compassion Formby (2009-2010); St Patrick's RC Church, Marshside Road (2009-2010); Family Life Centre Ash Street (2009-2009); Catholic Chapel Ince Blundell (2009-2009); Church of the Sacred Heart, Liverpool Road (2010-2010); The Church of St. Francis of Assisi (2010-2010); St Anne's RC Chapel (2010-2010); Kingdom Hall of Jehovahs Witnesses, Formby (2009-2009); St Josephs Saxon Road (2009-2010); St George's Church Lord Street (2009-2009); Methodist Church Marshside Road (2009-2010); Ainsdale St. John (2009-2010); Southport All Saints (2010-2010); Southport Christ Church (2009-2010); Southport Emmanuel (2009-2010); Southport Holy Trinity (2009-2010); Southport St Philip & St Paul (2009-2009); Southport St Simon & St Jude with All Souls (2010-2010); Southport St Francis (2010-2010); Birkdale St. James (2009-2010); Birkdale St John (2009-2010); Birkdale St Peter (2009-2010); Crossens St John (2009-2010); Formby Holy Trinity (2009-2010); Formby St Luke (2009-2010); Formby St Peter (2009-2010); North Meols St Cuthbert (2009-2010); Register Office or Registrar Attended (2009-2010)

Accidentally omitted from my last update were the following additions at
ww.lancashirebmd.org.uk: 23,045 Births for
Lancaster RD
comprising: Lancaster (1926-1951)

 MLFHS: Jewish Burial Records

Try the following sites: http://www.jewishgen.org/  or  http://www.jgsgb.org.uk/
MLFHS – Old Parish Registers (OPR)

Before the days of computers, the Old Parish Registers (OPRs) for Scotland were available on fiche. Computers arrived and the Latter Day Saints (LDS) were given access to the OPRs and created an index of births and marriages, and produced a CD which was only available to LDS Family History Centres. This CD is still available in some centres, but does require experience to use it as it, and its accompanying programme, are in DOS format !!!

However it is a much easier tool than Scotland's People web site and in Olga's case may
well help as it would tell how many and where JOHN CHADWICK and ISABELLA PEARSON had their children, if in Scotland and within the established church, the Church of Scotland. Another advantage with Scottish records is that women maintained their maiden surnames when they had children, when they died and were buried, and including on their wills if they wrote one.

I will be at my local LDS FHC on Wednesday and will see what the CD brings forth with
specific regard to this couple, as the births of their children will rule them in or out for Olga's particular problem.

 We are spoilt in as much as the English were forced, in 1812, to add more information
onto their baptisms, burials and marriages when the new nation wide page format was
introduced to the Churches of England. This format did not go to Scotland and it wasn't
until official registration in 1855 that Scotland added more details, and then they added
much more than had ever been on the English records.

I forgot to add: What was recorded on the baptisms and marriages in Scotland entirely
depended on the minister of the day, and often "who they were" that were getting married. However, it is not uncommon for a marriage to be entered in two parish registers a few days apart indicating the bride's parish separate from that of the groom's, and sometimes included is the groom's occupation as a bonus.

It is no consolation but I have several Scottish marriages just like yours. It seems that the witnesses were not entered pre civil registration. Mine just say X and Y gave up their names and were married on the whatever date it was. However have noticed that some do refer to the father of the bride and groom (not mine however!) and wonder if this was for people marrying under full age and therefore would need parental consent.

The part about the wife's maiden name also applies to Ireland (at least the Church of Ireland) prior 1837.

MLFHS: Family Search Records Images

I tried to access some of the Lancs parish registers on Family Search last December and kept getting an error message.  I contacted them and I got  2 replies from them .  Firstly-

'Thank you for contacting FamilySearch with the image unavailable issue. We have replicated the problem and will send it forward to the unit that handles problems such as this. Please keep checking back on that collection, but it will probably be some weeks before the resolution is in place.

We appreciate you bringing this to our attention as patrons using the collections are our best source for finding problems that occur.' And secondly

'FamilySearch is in the process of replacing some of our older collections with newer indexes, some with attached images.  This requires that some records be removed in order to be reworked.  Please continue to watch the site for these records to reappear in newly titled collections at a later date.'

MLFHS: Family Search Records Images

The Family Search site had in its collection of Registers the images for a number of locations in Lancashire, under England, Lancashire - Cheshire - Yorkshire Parish Registers.

I have noticed that everthing after one Oldham Church St Andrew is no longer there, just as well I downloaded them early in the year. I cannot see a link to a second page for Oldham onward or mention of them, have they gone for good ?

MLFHS: Husbandman- +Tithes
As Geoffrey has said this is wonderful site for Cheshire. I found my ancestors cottage and land he had,---although by that time the family had gone from gentlemen to yeoman through husband man to Ag lab!

What ever they started out with in 1650 (including titled in laws) after the fifth son of the fifth son etc. it had gone by 1840. So down as well as upward mobility.

If you have any ancestors in Cheshire the Cheshire Tithe Maps (about 1840) online at http://archives.cheshire.gov.uk/ are a fascinating resource. The land and buildings have owners & occupiers listed. I suppose you could cross-reference them to the 1841 Census and see if those described as farmers, husbandmen etc. did own their houses & land.
Unfortunately the Cheshire Tithe Maps seem to be the only county available online


I have struggled with this nomenclature myself for some time, but without any absolutely clear result, whether for occupations at marriage or census. My rather hazy conclusions at the present time are as follows.

Top of the tree would be someone who owned or leased (usually for so many lives) a substantial amount of land: more than his immediate family needs. He would have farm buildings, probably a horse, might employ people and his land would perhaps be worth more than 50 shillings a year if rented. He would probably be called a 'yeoman'. This would bring rights such as local voting and obligations such as overseer of the poor within the parish and he might serve in the local yeomanry (horsed militia). Despite what I have just written I have found it very difficult to find a written definition of yeoman.

Of lessor status but similar occupation would be a 'farmer' who by ownership or lease would farm an area of land for his own benefit. If his holding were sufficiently valuable he might be referred to by the parish as a yeoman; if less valuable or he was merely a tenant he would be called a 'farmer'. The distinction between the two seems to be of property value and status.

Either of the above might employ people to help them farm the land. An unskilled farm hand would be a labourer of course, but rearing of livestock has considerable scope for skill and knowledge: such a person might call themselves a husbandman. Presumably people skilled in raising crops might also call themselves a husbandman. Thus husbandman signifies a skilled profession rather than value of property or status.

As far as an electoral roll is concerned I would say a yeoman would qualify, a farmer might, a husbandman probably wouldn't unless (unlikely) he owned his cottage. As I have said clear information on this is difficult to find, so this is my best guess. I hope it helps.


Having a devious mind your message just prompted me to try something.
As I said the other day the Lancs Church list stops at Newton St Wilfred, waypoint/6450647.

Alter the end of the URL and hey presto we have some missing Churches 6450661 brings up the registers of Prestwich St Mary. I have yet to experiment further but it seems they are there but hidden.

We have one of Tony's ancestors who was listed as being a "sowderer" at the baptism of one of his children. When I found the baptisms for his other children it turns out that he was a "brass solderer". It would seem that this chap was also a "write as it sounds" type as well!!

I wondered, as I suspect you did, if this word should have been "'Attorney's". Checking the OED I find that 'Turney' is indeed an aphetic form of 'Attorney'.

Now I have to admit that 'aphetic' was a new adjective to me (so thanks for pointing me there), and for those who may be, like my spell-checker, similarly in the dark I can now report that aphesis is (OED), "The gradual and unintentional loss of a short unaccented vowel at the beginning of a word; as in squire for esquire".


"Do not take lightly small good deeds, believing they can hardly help. For drops of water, one by one, in time can fill a giant pot.  Patrul Rinpoche 19th century Buddhist"


 MLFHS: Husbandman

With respect to your comment about husbandmen having the vote if they were
landowners.

It is my impression that most husbandmen/ farmers were tenants.  That said, if of sufficient means as many were, they could still have the vote. Crop husbandry is also a perfectly accepted term, even today.

 MLFHS: Husbandman

I was under the impression that a husbandman was a farmer of animals rather than crops therefore the term "animal husbandry". Quite a few of mine and Tony's ancestors that lived in rural areas were listed as "Husbandman". If so, is it possible I might find him in a Poll Book?


CRRL - Freedmen's Bureau records online
In case you were having trouble finding the new Freedmen's Bureau records which went online at FamilySearch in February, here's the path:
Type the word " Virginia " in the search box
From the results, click on the link to " Virginia , Freedmen's Bureau Letters, 1865-1872"
CRRL links - Genealib] Shorthand Points of Reference: Countries/Areas Worldwide
Shorthand Points of Reference:
Countries/Areas Worldwide

In the continuing process of upgrades,
the following are noted as important:

(1)  OneSource Comprehensive Directory Index
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/onesource.htm
has instructions for use of country - nation area
index A to Z at: Ancestor Roots Information.
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/ancestorrootsinformationdatabases.htm
This reference has been updated completely.
http://goo.gl/Wn8Am


Evaluation format for sample country is duplicated
for every other world country.   Every national site
in the world, with information related to their civil
records, culture, genealogy, libraries, museums,
printed - country family history outlines, country
studies groups, individual identity information,
indigenous peoples, etc., is now online here.*
The horizontal use of
internal links combinesall major area data sources together without
the necessity to vertically return back to the
top of the pages for connective research.
. . .
FIFTH LINK goes to Map from World Atlas;
Etc., with famous natives, fast facts, flags,
land statistics, landforms, latitude - longitude,
links, maps, symbols, time, timeline, travel
information and weather; as presented.

EXAMPLE: [SAME FORMAT FOR ANY COUNTRY]EIGHTH LINK SUB SET goes to Culture
of [Italy Country Insight]; Italy taken from:
globalEDGE| Country Insights by globalEDGE
Business Knowledge; (or else, the [Country /
Geographical Location] is taken from a carefully
selected country / geographical location resource.)
This is the followed by the Topic Outline of Area
from Wikipedia(r), in combination with listing of
higher education studies sites, libraries, depositories,
or other related country culture links, as shown: . . .

(2) Reference and Homework Help
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/referencehomeworkhelp.htm
Provides under Reference Help
http://goo.gl/kYA49
* Credo Reference: Credo Reference
  Smart research starts here.  Easy access
  to trusted content from over 70 of the world's
  leading academic publishers.
  - Citable Information At Your Fingertips
    - Start Research With Topic Pages: Examples
  - Credo Reference: Blog
   
Free access to Credo available
    through any subscribing library.

(3) Regional Genealogy and Local History Research
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/regionalgenealogy.htm
Presents direct access to country links at IndexY
(Yahoo!); or, where available, country GlobalTower
Resource Directory, giving full access to Britannica
Online Encyclopedia references.


(4) Schools - Colleges - Universities
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/schoolscollegesuniversities.htm
Immediately lists Universities, with links to websites
of Ministries of Education and other national agencies
or institutions responsible for education in each individual
country, where available via UNESCO.  Countries by
population can be individually compared with Zip (BYU),
http://lib.byu.edu/sites/familyhistory/education/
or Genealogy Links: Education in Selected Country -
Directory: Information & Search.
http://goo.gl/zosub

MLFHS MEMBER AREA RESOURCES


The member area is a section of the society web site www.mlfhs.org.uk which can only be accessed by members. It contains a selection of data files - still fairly small in number, but hopefully to grow quite a bit in future. The contents are:

Index to obituaries published in Manchester newspapers relating to persons cremated at Manchester Crematorium.
Over seven thousand newspaper death notices and obituaries relating to persons cremated at Manchester Crematorium 1900-1940

Index to Memorial Inscriptions
Index to memorials in several Manchester and Salford burial grounds. Search results include full transcripts of memorials.

1841 Street Index for Manchester and Salford
Provides HO107 piece and enumeration district details for streets and named buildings in Manchester and Salford census returns.

Wesleyan Methodist Historic Roll
Searchable list of 17,826 signatories to the roll transcribed from Volumes 27 and 28 by Julie Davey.

Research Guide
The latest edition of the Research Guide is available free to MLFHS members.

BMD Certificate Indexes
Indexes of miscellaneous BMD certificates held in the Resource Centre at Clayton House.

Bolton Newspaper Extracts
Geoff Haslam has transcribed items relating to Bolton and its people from early newspapers covering the period 1724 to 1790. A wide variety of topics is covered. The transcripts are presented as four PDF documents amounting in all to nearly 200 pages. There is an index which is hyperlinked to the relevant page but you can, of course, also use the Acrobat "Find" facility on each document to locate words which do not appear in the index.

Old Stretford
A lecture delivered to the members and friends of the Stretford Institute on 19 February 1878 by Mr. John E. Bailey FSA. Full text transcribed by Brian Thompson

Oldham Mill Managers, Secretaries and Salesmen 1891
Anthony Steven has compiled this useful alphabetical list of mill managers, secretaries and salesmen which dates usefully for follow-up in the 1891 census returns

Missing Persons from the Manchester Times
Julie Davey has compiled this short but potentially invaluable index of missing person advertisements published in the Manchester Times. These advertisements generally relate to persons with whom the advertiser has lost contact rather than those who have "disappeared". As always, spelling of names and places may be subject to some variation. This is work in progress so worth revisiting from time to time to check for new data.

Schoolmasters in 1841
Alphabetical List of Masters, Mistresses, Governors, Professors and Assistants in Schools in Manchester & Salford extracted from  Pigot & Slater’s Directory of Manchester & Salford, 1841 by Gillian Taylor Shaw.

Kennedy's and McConnel's Mills Manchester
Employees 1833, Extracted from Dr Hawkin's Appendix to the Factory Commission Report of 1833, p293-294) and transcribed by Julie Davey. There are four lists:
McConnel's Mill Employees
Married men employed in McConnel & Kennedy's Factories March 1819 transcribed by Geoffrey Edge
McConnel & Kennedy Married Men
Persons employed in James Kennedy's Pickford Street Mill April 1818 transcribed by Geoffrey Edge
Kennedy's Mill Pickford Street Employees
Persons employed in James Kennedy's Great Ancoats Street Mill April 1818 transcribed by Geoffrey Edge
Kennedy's Mill Great Ancoats Street Employees

Manchester Prisoner Licences
A list of prisoners (mostly female) related to Manchester and released from prison under licence between 1853 and 1887. Includes personal details and TNA PCOM3 and PCOM4 references. Extracted from TNA online index by Julie Davey.

Stockport, St. Mary Marriages 1799-1837
An index to marriages by names of brides and grooms. Includes marital status of parties, occupation of groom and whether by licence. Residence is also given for a number of parties living outside the parish. PLEASE NOTE that this index is imperfect. In producing this version from the original 1980s typescript, many errors were found. Users should refer to the original registers (available on microfilm at Manchester Archives and Local Studies) to confirm the details provided.

Call to Arms
Gillian Taylor Shaw has transcribed this list of soldiers who responded to the call for arms in January 1900. If you cannot find an ancestor in the 1901 census then there is just a possibility that they had enlisted. All the men listed are from the 1st, 2nd and 4th Battalion Manchester Volunteers and the 5th Volunteer Battalion Manchester Regiment (V.B.M.R).

Salford Poor Law Documents
Julie Davey has compiled a book containing information abstracted from poor law documents. This page contains a list of surnames for which Julie has extracted information. Clicking on any surname will link to form to contact Julie, who will provide members with the detailed information relating to the name.

Manchester Genealogist Back Issues
If you have only joined the society recently, you will have missed a lot of good articles in earlier issues of The Manchester Genealogist. Here you can download issues published from 2004 onwards. Please note that these are large 6-7Mb Adobe Acrobat files and will take a considerable time to download if you connect using dial-up. You may find it worth checking the smaller Contents pages before downloading the whole document.

Handouts at Society Meetings (PDF Format)
Copies of handouts given out at Society meetings:
Census on the Internet
1911 Census

To gain access, go to the member area page (under Online Data menu) and register.

MLFHS - A bit of Victorian history

you are of course right that in Victorian times and for long before, the church
and the law agreed that a man could not marry his deceased wife's sister.

My Victorian prayer book (from Palmer, Howe & Co,
Princess St, Manchester
,
apparently originally my gt grandfather's), shows in "A table of kindred and
affinity wherein whosoever are related are forbidden in scripture and our laws
to marry together" - "17 Wife's sister". It being apparently taken as read that
a man can not marry two at once. The Victorian table contains 30 entries each
for man and woman.

It is quite difficult to date prayer books. One guide I have spotted is the
orders in council added to the various additional bits at the end, most notably
the accession service and services for the anniversary. The table of kindred and
affinity follows these. There will be clues too in the state prayers.

My more modern prayer book which contains the date 1953, lists only 25 degrees.
It does not include wife's sister, but does include various relations formed by
an earlier marriage.

Googling for "deceased wife's sister" yields the Wikipedia article "Deceased
Wife's Sister's Marriage Act 1907", which gives much of the background. There
was at least another act removing further forbidden degrees.

Great grandfather was in fact guilty of this particular crime. In his will his
second family were styled Entwisle or Shaw (his wive's maiden name). His second
marriage was at St Thomas, Pendleton.