Friday, July 22, 2011

HICUZ 84 - Wroe lineage preview for Rowe Reunion 2011

The HI CUZ Newsletters have taken on a new face and distribution format. Family information will continue to be eclectic and cover all facets of family research, and all of our collective family lines.
 
However, they will henceforth be distributed solely as postings to this blog – http://hicuz.blogspot.com/ 

Reminder, your acceptance of this newsletter signifies that you will not use its contents to alter, in any form or way, the historical religious beliefs, no matter what they were – or were not – of family members mentioned herein.

The following encapsulate for those attending the Rowe Reunion in Maine next week a summarized view of our Wroe ancestors.

From HICUZ 41

Naturalization (Citizenship) papers  -  What follows is a transcribed version of the naturalization papers for my grandfather, William Joseph Rowe. This document (actually two attached/related documents in this and most cases) provided very important family information on my Grampa. Why did he become naturalized, as his birth, though of foreign parents, was on an American ship, thus seemingly making him American. It lists the date and place of a significant event, birth date and place, former country. It may also list other family members, their identifying data, and family friends. These papers are found on pages 455 and 456, Clerk of the District Court of Portland, Maine under 22 January 1892.  Page 455, QUOTE –

                        UNITED STATES of AMERICA

To the Honorable the Judge of the District Court of the United States holden at Portland, within and for the District of Maine, on the first (written in) Tuesday of December (written in) in the year of our Lord eighteen hundred and (eighty stricken and) ninety one (written in) to wit: on the 22nd (written in) day of January (written in) A.D. 18(8 stricken) 92 (written in). 

Respectfully represents WILLIAM J. ROWE (signed in Grampa’s hand) of Portland (written in) in said district an alien, and a free white person, that he was born at Sea, on the ship Josephus (written in) in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, on or about the sixth (written in) day of June (written in) eighteen hundred and fifty-three (written in) and is now (about stricken) thirty-eight years of age; that he arrived at Boston (written in) in the United States of America, on or about ninth (written in) day of June (written in) in the year of our Lord eighteen hundred and fifty-three (written in) being then a minor, under the age of eighteen years; and that it was then and still is, his bona fide intention to reside in, and become a citizen of, the United States of America, and to renounce all allegiance and fidelity to every Foreign Prince, State, Potentate, and Sovereignty whatsoever – more especially to Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, whose subject he has heretofore been. 

            (stricken out – all of which appears in the record of the Honorable  , Court,   to wit, at the Term thereof, A.D. 1888  , a copy of which duly authenticated he here in Court produces.)

And the said Petitioner further represents, that he has ever since continued to reside within the jurisdiction of said United States; that he has never borne any hereditary title, or been of any of the orders of nobility; that he is ready to renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to every Foreign Prince, Potentate, State or Sovereignty whatsoever – and particularly to Victoria, Queen as aforesaid, whose subject he has heretofore been; that he is attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States of America, and well disposed towards the good order and happiness of the same.

Wherefore, your petitioner prays, that he may be admitted to become a citizen of the said United States of America, according to the forms of the Statutes in such case made and provided.
            (stricken out – More especially under the provisions of the 21st Section of an act of the Congress of the United States, entitled “An Act to define the Pay and Emoluments of certain Officers of the Army and for other purposes,” approved July 17th, 1862.)
                                                                        (Signed) William J. Rowe
Subscribed and sworn to in open Court.            (Signed) H.H. Davis
ATTEST                                                                                  Clerk  UNQUOTE

Page 456 is a sworn statement, signed 22 January 1892, by Daniel M. Mannix and Thomas J. Feeney, before the same court, attesting that these two “have known William J. Rowe, the foregoing Petitioner for five years last past, during which time he has resided in the United States, and has conducted himself and behaved as a man of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and (has been) well disposed toward the good order and happiness of the same.” My father was named after this Daniel M. Mannix, a doctor in Portland, Maine. This second page is the standard form which would be sworn to and signed by others attesting to the character and residence of any ancestor of yours who became an American citizen through naturalization. Prior to about 1920, women and children (of the father of families, and not born in the United States, or of American parents) became citizens when their father became one, so there would not be papers in their cases.

From HICUZ 43 –

Wroe research -  Received a PURE GOLD package from Wendy Wroe of Hertsfordshire, England. Among other items, it contained the license and Bonds of  my great, great, great grandfather, James Wroe, to Ann Plant. The License first –(filled in segments bolded and underlined; the rest is a printed, standard form) QUOTE
SEAL traces evident in upper left corner

The twenty fourth day of April in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Ninety Nine.

On which Day appeared personally James Wroe of Broughton in the Parish of Manchester in the County of Lancaster & Diocese of Chester, Gent. 

And being sworn on the Holy Evangelists, alleged and made Oath as follows  That he is of the Age of twenty five Years, and upwards and a Bachelor and intends to marry Ann Plant of Manchester as is aforesaid aged twenty four Years and upwards, and a Spinster not knowing or believing any lawful Let, or Impediment, by reason of any praecontract, Consanguinity, Affinity, or any other lawful Cause whatsoever, to hinder the said intended marriage: and he prayed a License to solemnize the said Marriage in the Collegiate Parish Church of Christ in Manchester aforesaid. In which said Parish the said James Wroe further made oath, That the said Ann Plant hath had her usual Abode for the Space of Four Weeks last past.

The same day the said      James Wroe
Was sworn before me, and License issued,
Jos. Brookes, Surrogate                        James Wroe (his signature)  UNQUOTE
What can we determine from this form, this marriage license. It suggests that the  (or an acceptable) marriage age was 25 for males, 24 for women, as the form indicated.  It shows James as a gentleman of Broughton, in the parish of Manchester, the county being Lancaster. Ann is shown as a “spinster” of Manchester. They were to be married at the Collegiate and Parish Church in Manchester, Ann having her adobe (residence) there for at least the past four weeks. This suggests a source for further records on her family, perhaps siblings and an address. James Wroe’s signature is shown on this license, dated 24 April 1799, which is the day before their marriage.

The Bonds of that marriage appear below. 

The Bonds (from HICUZ 44)  – QUOTE
(Eight Pence seal mark affixed) Know all men by these Presents, That we James Wroe of Broughton in the Parish of Manchr in the County of Lancaster & Diocese of Chester, gent. v Henry Aspinall of Manchester, Parish Clerk are bolden and firmly bound unto the Right Reverend Father in God, William, by Divine Permission, Lord Bishop of Chester, in the Sum of Five hundred Pounds, of good and lawful Money of great Britain, to be paid unto the Said Right Reverend Father, his lawful Attorney, Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, to which Payment well and truly to be made, we bind ourselves and each of us severally for and in the whole, our Heirs, Executors, and Administrators, and the Heirs, Executors, and Administrators, of each of us firmly by these Presents. Sealed with our seals, and dated the twenty fourth Day of April in the thirty ninth Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord George King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, and in the Year of our Lord God, One Thousand Seven Hundred and Ninety Nine.

The condition of this obligation is such that if the abovebounden James Wroes, Bachelor and Ann Plant, Spinster now licensed to be married together, be neither of Consanguinity, or Affinity, the one to the other, within the Degrees prohibited for Marriage: If also there be no Let or Impediment, by reason of any Precontract, entered into before the Twenty-fifth Day of March, One Thousand Seven Hundred and Fifty Four, or any other lawful Cause whatsoever, but that they may be lawfully married together, both by the Laws of GOD, and this Land: Moreover, if the Persons, whose Content is required by Law in this Behalf, be thereunto agreeing: And lastly, if the said Marriage be done and solemnized in such Manner, as in the License to them granted is limitted: Then this Obligation to be void, or else to remain in full Force and Virtue.

Sealed and delivered
            In the Presence of
                        Jos. Brookes (signature)

                                                                        James Wroe (signature and seal)

                                                                        Henry Aspinall (signature and seal)
UNQUOTE
What can we determine from this form? It is a very legalistically written, standard form, swearing payment of five hundred pounds to the Bishop of Chester if the marriage is not consummated. A HUGE sum in that day, not necessarily one which James Wroe could pay if he (or Ann) changed their minds. Obviously marriage was not to be entered into lightly. The form is dated 24 April 1799, the day before their marriage. Did James Wroe have a seal, and was it registered with some civic or business organization, and therefore traceable. Wendy suggests that seals were used almost exclusively by officials.

Have any cousins found a similar marriage bond for one of their ancestors, preferably in Scotland, Wales, Canada, or Ireland, and whether the same conditions and wording apply.   THANK YOU WENDY!!!  BUT, the story continues, with more family data.

Wendy’s research of St Mary’s Church burial records (refer back to HICUZ 42) found a number of Wroe families, one of whom, Richard Wroe, MAY be the father of James Wroe, and thus my great great great great grandfather. Let me label the heads of three families A, B, and C. Note the bolded, underlined statements.

A.        Richard Wroe, yeoman, m Elizabeth Holland, spinster 12 March 1763 – both spouses signed the parish marriage records. Richard born abt 1743; died 22 Dec 1786, in 1773 and 1781 Trade Directories – chandler and tythe gatherer; at
8 Market Street
– no will registered for Richard. Richard died in 44th year. Elizabeth remarried 19 June 1798 to Thomas Shepley, a gentleman. Elizabeth died 25 January 1813 at 84 (prob 74). Richard and Elizabeth buried at St Mary’s, Manchester, plot 202, page 324 have copy !

            Possible siblings of James Wroe, children of above Richard/Elizabeth:
                        Richard chr 17 Nov 1765 MC; died 18 January 1766
                        Thomas b 1764; died 7 August 1766 at 2 years, 9 months
                        Elizabeth b 1767; died 12 June 1771 at 3 years, 7 months

Possible brother to Richard above –


B.                  James Wroe, b 1734; d 1810 10 June @ 76. James, also a yeoman, m Elizabeth d 24 May 1801 @ 60 years; both buried at St Mary’s, Manchester, plot 200, page 324  Children of James and Elizabeth Wroe –
                                John (chr 5 Mar 1762 @ St Ann’s) d 25 April 1829 (68); m June
June d 15 March 1852 aged  64
                        Mary (b 1765 MC) d 17 Sep 1768
                        Ann (chr 17 Jan 1768 MC) d 11 January 1777 at 9 years
                                Elizabeth (chr 10 Jan 1773 MC)  prob d before 1778

                   Richard (b 1776) d 21 March 1786 at 10 years

                                Elizabeth 1778 MC
                        Ann (chr 3 Oct 1781 MC) d 8 June 1798 in 17th years
                        Martha (b 1782 MC) d 18 Dec 1783 at 1 year, 8 months
                                                MC indicates christenings at Manchester Cathedral
            Possible parents to James and Richard (both yeomen) above
C.        John Wroe, b 1713, chr 12 March 1713 m Mary – of Salford
                        John d 7 Sep 1769 @ 56; Mary d 12 Nov 1796 in 80th year;
                        Both buried at St Mary’s, Manchester, plot 201, page 324
                                    Their children:
                        Richard chr 1743
                        John (b 1747) d 19 January 1768 in 21st year
                        Thomas (b 1752) d 3 March 1776 in 24th year
                        Mary (b 1755)
                        Joseph (b 1757) d 16 Jan 1780 in 23rd year
                        William (b 1759/1760) d 22 Nov 1768 in 9th year

            Wendy said she has a hunch that this John and Mary may be the parents of Richard and James Wroe above, because St Mary’s parish burial records indicate all were buried in adjoining graves (200, 201, and 202), strongly suggesting they were of the same family. Wendy has requested a copy of the will of James (Richard had none), which may provide details. Notice that this period was not one in which people lived long lives, with several of this family dying in their twenties.

D.  She also found a John and Mary Wroe of the same period, he a farmer of Broughton, in the Prestwich Registers, with the following children:
                        James 1741 MC
                        Richard chr in 1743 – father noted in Prestwich Registers as farmer
                        John chr 1747 of Broughton
Wendy feels this couple may be the same John and Mary identified immediately above.

E.  Another Wroe family discovered by Wendy in Prestwich Registers is noted below:
            Richard Wroe m ?? of Kersal (part of Broughton)
                        (poss) James b 1707
                        John b 1713

                   Thomas b 1717

                        Joseph b 1720
                        Peter b 1723
                        Mary b 1726
            Wendy suspects that this Richard (E) may have been the father of the John (m Mary) (C, D, or C/D) noted above. This is a fascinating hobby!!! THANKS WENDY!!!!

In discussing the term yeoman, Wendy says that if one divided the whole of English society in the late 1700s into two socio-economic groups, that yeomen would be at the bottom of the top half. “A yeoman would own his own land, however small. If it was a large holding and he did not get his hands dirty, but employed many labourers, he may even call himself a gentleman.” A gentleman would be one who would not have to work for a living, while a farmer typically meant one who “rented the land …Working for himself, keeping any profits, but paying rent.”  A labourer would “be working on the land, paid by the farmer, owning nothing, paid by the hour.”

HICUZ 46

PURE GOLD!!! Wroe research - Received (late Oct 99) a WONDERFUL package from a cousin in England. It included selected segments of the maps, from 1786 and one of 1650, of Manchester, England, the wills of several Wroes of the mid-1700s, and an updated Wroe tree. An article, titled “The Agricultural Revolution and Beyond” from “The Economic History of England”, by Briggs and Jordan, 12th edn, 1977, provided some insights into the farming patterns of the 1700s. This researcher has done very thorough research on almost all the Wroes of record around 1700’s Manchester, trying to identify one particular ancestor; this has helped a number of fellow Wroe researchers, and promises to connect several of us in the next several years. A running summary of the essence of the will of James Wroe, dated 1762 follows. While this James Wroe is not in my (our) direct Wroe line, he may be “closely related. Wroe, Broughton, land, chandler … it all points to him being a close relative.”

Public Records Office (PRO) records release restrictions preclude my copying or printing the will itself. In the case of this specific will, one would think it is far enough removed in time to be beyond any concerns of living people, and is not in itself revealing of any social failures or ills; on the other hand other wills could reveal information of living individuals or of information that could be of concern from a legal point of view. This  restriction, like that imposed on census record information, is a general rule to protect privacy of English in a broad sense.

James’ father, probably back in 1726, signed an agreement termed an indenture, with several friends or neighbors, apparently leasing several plots of land for a term of 500 years (not sure if this meant Wroe ownership went back that far, or the term referred to the length of future agreement on the lands’ use and control; most probably the latter. James Wroe’s will was signed 10 September 1762, probated  20 May 1765, but final settlement did not occur until May of 1835, well beyond when any living heirs of James Wroe had passed away. What took so long? Here are some thoughts and a few details - 

The land in question is described as lying in Cheetham, Lancashire County, and formerly held by John Lomax and Richard Lomax, later held by Samuel Barnes, several “closes” or meadow, pasture land which could be termed moors. Moors are, as a fellow researcher notes, “high ground, of little use. Often boggy, difficult to walk on, apart from recognised pathways. No trees, of little use for cultivation apart from peat. Uneven clumps of bracken, wild grasses, heathers, etc…Wild rather inhospitable places.”

Specifically, it included pasture land bounded on the North by land once held by John Bridsoake and comprising about two acres. An area termed “Rye Field” of about two acres and two rods. Another “close” called the Little Meadow, of about two rods. Another similar area called the Lower Hill of about three acres and two rods. A similar four acre area commonly called the Lady Meadow. A parcel called the Ferney Acre of about two acres. A six acre area oddly termed the “Bare Arse Meadow.” A four acre arable plot commonly termed Croslee. Next to this, three acres and two rods of land called the Nearer Crosslee. A three acre and three rod meadow termed Calles or the Wet Field Meadow. In Cheetham an area of roughly eight acres known as the Great Meadow, with “appurtenances” held “in Trust” for Joseph Heywood, Peter Heywood, and “their heirs to the term of five hundred years … to the intent and purpose only that the same term should attend and wait upon the freehold and Inheritance of the same Premises … might be preserved … kept on foot to prevent a merger and extinguishment thereof … to protect … from and against all intervening incumbrances…”

It would appear that this James Wroe [I’m boring you with this because he may be distantly related and lead, via land records, to more ancestors] neglected to legally deal with his commitments in his Last Will and Testament. The laws required him to properly dispose of the legal transfer of these plots of land. When he died, James’ will apparently overlooked this legal necessity, left the land to his daughters (no sons, hence no further Wroes from this family). When this will was being reviewed by the barristers/attorneys/lawyers of the time, it must have become apparent that the will contradicted or ignored the terms of the land agreement.

An explanation of the niceties of English land tenure, per Bruce Jackson, County Archivist of Lancaster County, replying to a query (these terms probably have some relevance to Canadian, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish land records: 

QUOTE - Land could be held in one of three ways up to the middle of this century – Manorial land was held by copyhold, meaning that the transfer of land was effected through the manorial court and tenancy proved by possession of a copy of the entry in the court roll, the land remaining the property of the lord of the manor.

Other land was held either by freehold, where ownership could be transferred outright by means of a feoffment, or by leasehold, where land had to remain in the possession of a particular person or family, for different legal reasons, but could be transferred by lease.

In order to get round the various legal constraints affecting leasehold land, it became the norm to be transferred on long leases. The method varies around the country – some regions favoured the lease for lives, where the land was transferred for the period of the lives of three people and new leases were made when one or more of the “lives” died; other regions favoured the lease for 999 years, or a similar long term of years, effectively transferring the land “forever.” 

If the tenant died within the term of the lease, the land should revert to the official owner, however the tenant could take measures, with the agreement of the owner, to transfer the land for the remainder of the term to another “tenant.” Bruce went on to state that the term of 500 years “referred to in James Wroe’s will was effectively a freehold transaction. It is likely that at some point in the land’s history the official owner could not, or did not wish to, transfer the land as freehold, and effected a long term lease. Without the documentary evidence it is impossible to say for certain that this is the case. It would appear from the wording in the will that a previous tenant [or family member??] transferred the land to James Wroe for the remainder of the initial term, and that before his death James Wroe neglected to make arrangements for the land to be transferred again. In this case the land would not have been assessable as part of James Wroe’s estate and should have reverted to the original owner. UNQUOTE 

From HICUZ 46 – Courtesy of Wendy Wroe

Wendy found the 1761 marriage license (she later said in an e-mail, “I still can’t believe how lucky you were that the licenses were still available, AND THAT FATHER JOHN DECLARED HIMSELF” for James Wroe, the brother of my (our) great, great, great, great grandfather Richard Wroe (m Elizabeth Holland).  Wendy indicates that luck was present, as “1st they were married by license and not by banns; 2nd the documents are still available and not lost; 3rd they were under age, therefore needed written agreement to their marriage (most underage just told lies apparently); and 4th it was father who signed … stating who he was. Unbelievable proof for the 1760’s … this really IS a stroke of luck for you.”

Here, in a document from official PRO files, was the signature of John Wroe (shown bolded and underlined above) my great (x5) grandfather, dated tenth October, 1761. Both John and James are noted as yeoman (landholders) “of the Parish of Manchester and Town of Salford in the County of Lancaster.” James wife was Betty Hayes, spinster; her father John Hayes, innkeeper of Salford. Both Betty and James are said to be 20 years of age.  They were to be married in the Collegiate and Parish Church of Christ in Manchester, in the Diocese of Chester. Both John Hayes and John Wroe swore, signed and sealed that they were “the natural and lawful father of the said… and consenting to the above mentioned intended marriage.” Here I have a prized signature, plus occupation, and general area where the family lived. A nine pence stamp was affixed to the document, “sealed and delivered in the presence of Maurice Griffith, Surrogate”, and the license pledged 200 pounds if they failed to wed. Analysis of the three seals (John Wroe, James Wroe, and John Heyes) may reveal clues, but that is far down the road.

Another researcher sent something even more precious!!!!!!

This next was the marriage license, signed by Richard Wroe, my great, great, great, great grandfather (direct line). It was signed, the 10th of March 1763, showing Richard to be twenty years old, and Elizabeth Holland, his wife, to be twenty-one. Richard, a yeoman, signed “Richd” and they intended marriage at the Collegiate and Parish Church of Christ in Manchester. While James had indicated abode in Salford, Richard’s license, pledging the sum of 500 pounds if they failed to marry, showed “Parish and town of Manchester.” Maurice Griffith was again the Surrogate. Why was one license indexed to 200 pounds, the other at 500 pounds? By way of historical perspective, 1763 was the year England defeated France for control of Canada. This researcher is A TREASURE!

From HICUZ 48

PLATINUM, PLATINUM, PLATINUM - Wendy Wroe of England has done it still once more. This latest package, received January 2000, contained the following treasures:

1.      Baptism record of John Wroe, son of Richard of Kersal – 12 March 1713. [John is my Great X 5 grandfather.]

2.      Baptism record of a son to James Wroe, tallow chandler of Manch (ester), August 1741. [This James is a grandson to Richard above, and a brother to my Great X 4 grandfather]

3.      Baptism record of a son to John Wroe of Broughton, Sept 1741 [this is the elder brother [James] to my Great X 4 grandfather Richard]

4.      Baptism record of Richard Wroe, 30 Dec 1743 (in the Prestwich Registers), son of John Wroe, farmer and Mary his wife of Broughton. [This Richard is my Great X 4 grandfather, and John/Mary are my Great X 5 grandparents]

What a TREASURE Wendy has been; we Rowes (and many Wroes) owe her an immense debt of gratitude. Let me just provide a brief Wroe/Rowe direct lineage (omitting siblings) down to little ole me:

            Richard Wroe of Kersal, b abt 1680
                        ]
John Wroe, b 12 March 1713, m Mary abt 1687/90, of Salford, yeoman,
shopkeeper, d 1769  @ 56
]
            Richard Wroe, b 30 Dec 1743, m Elizabeth Holland 2 Dec 1763, d 1786 @ 44
                        ]
            James Wroe, b 2 Dec 1770, m Ann Plant 25 April 1799. He d 19 Apr 1837 @ 66;
gentleman, later Clerk of Police, Salford                        ]
]
            Richard Wroe, b Cheetham,  bap 29 June 1800, m Margaret Stansfield. Weaver,
carder in Bradford.
]
            Thomas Wroe/Rowe, b 8 March 1830, bap 21 Mar 1830; m (?) Mary Ellen
Meagher. He a laborer, d 13 July 1892 in Portland, Maine.
]
            William Joseph Rowe, b 6 June 1853 at sea, m Catherine Ellen Shanaghan
19 June 1877 Portland, Maine, where he d 5 July 1909.
]
            Daniel Mannix Rowe, b 14 June 1893, m Bridget “Bryde” O’Connor 20 May
1931. He d 2 Sep 1965 in Portland, Maine.
]
            Donald Patrick Rowe, b March 1944 [Your favourite cousin, me]

Another researcher has shared equally remarkable data. It included -

A.      Will of Richard Wroe [my Great X 4 grandfather] dated 5 Sept 1769. Richard is noted as a yeoman, of Salford, and giving 1/3 of “the farm I now live upon” to his wife Mary. The will mentions sons James [my Great X 3 grandfather], Richard, and a brother Thomas. The executors were his son James and brother Thomas, who were sworn 5 Oct 1769, suggesting Richard died shortly after making out his Last Will and Testament. Richard’s Will noted leasehold farms in Openshawe, Hulme, and Rusholme, and living on Ancoats Lane.  The researcher noted that two prior searches for this particular Will had proved unsuccessful.

B.      Will of Thomas Wroe of Stretford signed 13 Jan 1781. His sons James [my Great X 3 grandfather], John, and nephew Richard Wroe were executors. They were “sworn in common form” on 30 Oct 1783, which suggests his death in that year. Richard owned some land as freehold (free and clear) and other plots as “leasehold”, meaning he leased them from others for a specified period, some “for the term of three lives” or three generations. The Will mentions livestock, farm implements, tools, kitchen utensils, and linens. The Will also notes his wife as Alice, a daughter Mary, and sons Thomas, James, and John (eldest). One part of the will notes a 500 year leasehold (which appears from other papers to have been disputed after his death); an address of Market Street Lane was noted, along with
Fountain Street
. John Wroe, Richard’s son, inherited the land as the eldest, and his name was mentioned as deceased in the papers (dated 30 July 1836) disputing the leasehold, suggesting John’s death before that date.

C.      Will of John Wroe signed 5 Sep. 1769, noted, Two fields “called by and known by the Name or names of the Great Meadow ... some gardens.”

Recall that in HICUZ 46 above the will of James Wroe, signed 10 Sep 1762 which was finally probated/resolved in 1836, was mentioned. In it are words describing a piece of land in Cheetham termed “Great Meadow.” Note just above (#7) in the wording of the Will of John Wroe signed 5 Sep 1769 that a piece of land “called by and known by the Name or names of the Great Meadow” is also mentioned. I would estimate that that James Wroe and this John Wroe are related. More analysis to do of course to validate this idea. The wills are being transcribed into WORD documents for better analysis and electronic storage.

My great, great grandparents, Richard and Margaret Wroe probably married in 1821, and had the following children (siblings of Great Grampa Thomas Wroe/Rowe):

Sarah Wroe - baptized at Manchester Cathedral 23 Aug 1822
James Wroe -   ditto                                                     16 Dec 1825
Elizabeth (Wroe) Barnes - ditto                         1 Feb 1828
Thomas Wroe/Rowe - (born 8 March 1830) ditto  21 Mar 1830
William Wroe - ditto                                                     27 May 1832
John Wroe -     ditto                                                     31 Aug 1834
Mary Wroe -    ditto                                                     23 Apr 1837
Jane Roe (this was spelling on civil birth certificate)-
born 16 Jan 1839 and baptized 25 Feb 1839.  An "X" on the birth certificate suggests Margaret could not write.  Jane had the sole birth registration, as England had only imposed civil registration in July of 1837.


My great grandparents, Thomas (ne Wroe) and Mary Ellen Meagher Rowe – their family:

William Joseph, b at sea on "Josephus" 6 June 1853
Margaret, b
Hancock Court, Portland
1856; died 22 Nov 1858 @ 2
Catherine Meagher, b 13 Dec 1858; died ???
Elizabeth, b
Monument St, Portland
1860; d 25 Sep 1863 @ 3
Thomas Meagher, b 10 Feb 1863; d 7 May 1927
Mary, b 2 May 1865, d  ??? (Anna M. Rowe married John E. McBrady)
Jane (Jenny), b 7 Sep 1867; died ???  (married ?? Emery)
Elizabeth, b 29 Dec 1871; died ???   © never married.

My grandparents, William Joseph and Catherine Ellen Rowe, had a total of eleven children, though a large number never reached maturity. They were:

Nellie Mary Rowe, born 2 Sep 1878; died 26 Nov 1879 @ 1
Mary Ellen Rowe, born 20 Nov 1879; died 21 Aug 1885 @ 6
William Thomas Rowe, MD, born 15 Sep 1881; died 5 May 1955
John Henry Rowe, born 29 July 1883; died 12 Apr 1956
Edward Shannon Rowe, born 8 Aug 1885; died 4 Apr 1886 @ 1
Edwin Leonard Rowe, born 20 Jan 1887; died 9 Aug 1941 @ 54
Francis Stephen Rowe, born 26 Dec 1888; died 11 Apr 1921 @ 33
Joseph William Rowe, born 2 Apr 1891; died
Daniel Mannix Rowe, MD, born 14 Jun 1893; died 2 Sep 1965
Alice Josephine Rowe, born 3 Mar 1896; died 28 Aug 1981
Thomas Lipton Rowe, born 23 Oct 1899; died 8 Jul 1915 @ 15

Homes (all in Portland, ME) to remember and visit – try to find on Google Earth

A -
45 Waterville street
from ??  to 1909 (Thomas Lipton Rowe born there; Grampa Willie died there in 1909; Great Grampa John Shanaghan died there in 1901)

B -
40 Monument Street
, where Thomas and Mary Ellen lived through about

C -
36 Vespers Street
(where Uncle Edwin Leonard later lived), one had a grocery store
downstairs.

D -
54 Adams Street
, where Great Grampa Thomas lived at his death in 1892 and Great Gramma Mary Ellen in 1902.

E - in 1882 - Willie and Kate lived @ 48 Adams, w/ boarders John and E.H. O'Brian; Thomas and Thomas H. Rowe @ 74 Adams (or 17 Newberry St); John Edward McBrady, sheet iron worker @ 74 Adams.

All these houses are within several blocks on Munjoy Hill near Portland's Eastern Promenade (overlooking Casco Bay and Chebeague Island). John Edward McBrady, per Eleanore (Rowe) Tomusko lived on corner of Sheridan and Congress streets.

Friday, July 15, 2011

HICUZ 83

The entries below are a continuation (from last HICUZ Blog post) of the eclectic mix of posts to the Manchester Liverpool Family History Society (MLFHS) of which I’m a member. Again please enjoy the differences in English between here and across the pond.

MLFHS: Carlisle RO (Records Office)

For those who are interested in records from Cumberland, the north of the county and Carlisle in particular, the new RO opens to the public from Wednesday of this week after some 15mths of being closed due to the new site being built and existing buildings being renovated. Having just driven past the new building this afternoon, I can say that it looks fabulous.

They are not going to open on Mondays, but are planning to open on the first Saturday of each month, which is a godsend to folk like me who work full time! Just thought that it was worth mentioning.

MLFHS: Carlisle RO
Thanks for posting this Karen. I don't know when I'll be able to return to Carlisle but it's good to know the new place is finally ready. Though for me the Castle was the perfect position when staying in Carlisle and not having transport. I remember having the place
pointed out to me by a local friend and I felt it was quite out of the way for visitors using public transport. So many record offices now seem to close on a Monday which makes it inconvenient for those planning a long weekend.

MLFHS: Non gen:  In the cloud for how long?
 
I've been pondering for a while as to what will happen to my online albums, documents, family trees, blogs etc when I become seriously ill or I depart this world for what I hope will be a better life.  Some of these albums are public albums and people will continue to be able to see them but for how long?  If there is no input from me over a period of time does the service provider delete my account?    I know that my family would not be interested and in any case their time too would be limited.   I'd be interested to hear what others think on this?
MLFHS: Non gen:  In the cloud for how long?

I would be interested to read other views on this as well as it is of some concern to me too.  I suspect much of the online details will not be kept indefinitely, and I have always been wary of putting every last detail on line anyway as I have seen too many examples of family trees copied non too accurately, just to increase someone’s overall total of head hunted ancestors.  Perhaps I am wrong and should be posting my tree all over the internet in the hope that some of it will survive somewhere. 

I keep an updated copy of Roots Magic on CD and on my computer, but this media storage will be obsolete one day.  I also keep printed trees and family files in folders, and photos of course, I suspect the old sepia photos will last much longer than the newer digital prints.  And how do I preserve details of the scandalous behaviour and the tragedies and triumphs I have carefully recorded over the years?  Will the print eventually fade and the details be lost forever?

MLFHS: Non gen:  In the cloud for how long?
 
I found this on  Googling  What happens to my photos after death. One site even talks about having a digital executor for online photos.  What happens though when the executor dies?   It's interesting to see so many people looking at the problem?

MLFHS: Burial Records: Multiple Grave Entries

These types of graves are quite common, at least in the Manchester area. They go by various names. Sometimes they are called "public" graves, probably to indicate that unlike regular family plots the sites were not privately owned. They are also called "Inscription" graves in that the burial cost usually included the inscription of the name of the deceased on the tombstone. The main reason for this kind of burial was simply economic. A regular burial involved buying a plot, paying for the grave-diggers to
open the grave, and paying for a stone (or stones if side and footstones were in fashion).

In Gorton cemetery these graves are in sections that were visibly different from the regular private plots because they consisted of three or four rows of identical smallish headstone. I believe it was the same in Philips Park cemetery. However, my limited experience with that cemetery suggests that some or all of this type of burial involved a stone which lay on the ground rather than standing upright. Droylsden cemetery has a couple of sections of public graves, but it is much smaller than Gorton and the tombstones in the section are not obviously different from the surrounding stones as is true in Gorton cemetery.

If you check the dates of burial on inscription dates you will find that they tend to be around the same time. From what I have been able to tell looking at the sections in Gorton it appears that burials in these graves were handled with minimizing costs being an important consideration. Looking at the information of the persons buried in them also suggests that a significant proportion of those buried in them were infants or children.
This is one of the reasons why the cemetery authorities were able to put so many persons in each grave were listed on each tombstone.

A concise definition of the various forms of graves can be found at the Friends of Beckett Street Cemetery site: www.beckettstreetcemetery.org.uk/. Click on the "Types of Graves in the Cemetery" reference found on the lower right hand side of the page under the heading "Popular."

MLFHS: RE: Dandelion Beer

Used to get Wild's (of Heywood) Dandelion and Burdock from the "Top Temp" in Rochdale Rd Middleton.   5d for a big bottle with one penny off for the return. A treat with Sunday Dinner.

Digging a drain at our mill recently we unearthed a Wild's bottle but no screw top, probably too late to return and get the penny deposit back.

I found this recipe in my copy of Home Brewed Beers and Stouts by C J J Berry, published 1963 -
Half a lb young dandelion roots;  1 lb demerara sugar;  1 lemon; Yeast; 1 gallon water
Half an oz of root ginger; 1 oz cream of tartar.
This is a pleasant drink and said to be good for stomach disorders. The young plants should be lifted in the spring, and well washed. Leave the thick tap roots but remove the fibrous ones. Put the plants, the well bruised ginger and the rind of the lemon (excluding any white pith)in the water and boil for twenty minutes. Strain onto the sugar, the juice of the lemon and cream of tartar, and stir until dissolved. Cool to 70 degrees fahrenheit, add yeast and ferment (covered) in a warm place for three days. Bottle in screw stopper bottles.

NB I haven't made this myself; I preferred to make home made wine.

MLFHS: Dandilion and Burdock

The word "beer" never entered our thoughts when we crossed the road from Long St
Methodist Church to visit the Temperence bar to purchase our less potent drink of Dandilion and Burdock!!

I was in the 16th Middleton Cubs, the Scouts and the Youth Club, all attached to the Church, but, in those stricter days, have to confess I refused to sign the Teetotal Pledge!

MLFHS: Dandelion Beer

No Sorry Colin I cannot recall that one but what I do remember was Mawsons used to sell packets of home brew. Stout and my dad used to brew this in our cellar it was as black as coal and very fizzy the corks where forever popping of and he had to reseal them and try to tie them down to the neck of the bottle; he also had me collecting dandelion leaves and dock leaves from the West St site (where the council offices are now) and he would brew them and make dandelion and burdock very nice and tasty.

MLFHS: Dandelion Beer
I remember my parents making some dandelion beer about 60 years ago, made from the whole plant, flowers, roots and leaves, all boiled.  They bottled it and stored it in the coal-(and everything else-)cellar, which was beneath our living room.  Later we heard a series of explosions, and went down to the cellar to find the bottles blowing their corks right, left and centre.

Strangely enough, I dug up some dandelion plants from my garden a week or two ago, and rather than waste them, I remembered my parent's experience, and decided to try to follow their example.  It may not have been Guinness, but it was drinkable.

I had to guess quantities.  Does anyone have a recipe?

MLFHS: Dandelion Beer

This recipe is from my great grandmother's book 'Consult Me For All You Want
to Know' published by John Heywood in 1866.

DANDELION BEER.- Dandelion root, 1/2 lb to 1 gallon of water; boil well, and
when cooled to new milk warm, add 1 lb sugar, 1 oz ginger, a lemon and 1 oz
cream of tartar. Add a little yeast. It is very good for the liver and digestion. Young nettles, balm, or any other herb may be treated in the same way. Cedric
MLFHS: RE: Dandelion Beer
I found this recipe in my copy of Home Brewed Beers and Stouts by C J J Berry, published 1963: Half a lb young dandelion roots;  1 lb demerara sugar;  1 lemon
; Yeast;  1 gallon water;  Half an oz of root ginger;  1 oz cream of tartar

This is a pleasant drink and said to be good for stomach disorders. The young plants should be lifted in the spring, and well washed. Leave the thick tap roots but remove the fibrous ones. Put the plants, the well bruised ginger and the rind of the lemon (excluding any white pith) in the water and boil for twenty minutes. Strain onto the sugar, the juice of the lemon and cream of tartar, and stir until dissolved. Cool to 70 degrees Fahrenheit,  add yeast and ferment (covered) in a warm place for three days. Bottle in screw stopper bottles.
NB I haven't made this myself, I preferred to make home made wine.

CRRL (Day job) -
A patron at the library today shared a source of digitized old British records. British History On Line offers (fee based membership) copies of quite old documents, some the patron accessed on line were from 1360s. The cost is thirty pounds per year, about $45.00. Check it out at
 
 
Additionally he mentioned Google Books as a source of digitized reference documents. I plan to investigate both sources further (sometime I have a spare moment).

MLFHS: LancashireBMD - New data

Hi - New data has been added at www.lancashirebmd.org.uk as follows:

Added 6,006 Births for Manchester RD comprising: Market Street (1837-1844)

Added 1,823 Births for North Sefton RD comprising: Formby (1847-1851); North Meols (1847-1851)

Amended 30,989 Births for Wigan & Leigh RD to include mother's maiden name, comprising: Lowton (1856-1878); Hindley (1874-1878); Standish (1884-1901); Wigan (1879-1885)

Added 7,997 Deaths for Oldham RD comprising: Oldham Above Town (1861-1871)

Added 10,476 Marriages for Bolton RD comprising: Bolton, Friends Meeting House (1987-1988); Bolton, Tonge Moor Congregational Church, Starkie Road (1988-1992); Egerton, Congregational Chapel / Utd Reformed Church (1987-1992); Bolton, St Paul, Astley Bridge (1987-1992); Bolton, Hebron Hall, Mayor Street / Gospel Hall, Commission Street (1991-1991); Little Lever, Wesleyan Methodist Church, Herbert Street / Wesleyan Chapel, Mytham Road (1987-1992); Farnworth, Congregational Church, Albert Road (1987-1992); Kearsley, Wesleyan Chapel, Manchester Road (1987-1992); Bolton, Bank Street Chapel (1988-1992); Bolton, Zion Baptist Church, St John Street (1990-1990); Blackrod, St Katherine (1987-1992); Farnworth, Congregational Church, Market Street (1987-1992); Bolton, Congregational Church, Chorley Old Road / Avondale Street (1987-1990); Bolton, Daubhill Wesleyan Chapel, St Helens Road, Rumworth (1987-1992); Bolton, Wesleyan Church, Chorley Old Road, Smithills (1987-1992); Bolton, Delph Hill Wesleyan Chapel, Smithills (1987-1992); Bolton, Trinity Methodist Chapel, Tonge / Wesleyan Chapel, Bury Road, Tonge (1987-1992); Bolton, Emmanuel Parish Church (1987-1992); Horwich, Lee Chapel, Lee Lane (1987-1990); Harwood, Primitive Methodist Chapel, Tottington Road (1987-1991); Bolton, Congregational Church, Blackburn Road (1987-1987); Harwood, Wesleyan Chapel, Longsight (1987-1992); Blackrod, Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, New Street (1987-1992); Bolton, Deane Congregational Church (1987-1991); Horwich, Independent Methodist Chapel, Lee Lane (1988-1992); Bolton, St Bede (1987-1992); Bolton, Mornington Presbyterian Church, Somerset Road / Somerset Road URC (1987-1992); Bolton, St Georges Road Congregational Church (1987-1992); Westhoughton, Bethel Chapel, Park Road (1987-1992); Bolton, St Matthew (1987-1992); Bolton, Wesleyan Chapel, Seymour Road, Astley Bridge (1987-1992); Little Lever, Independent Chapel, Market Street

(1987-1991); Horwich, New Chapel (1987-1992); Bolton, Utd Reformed Church, Bank Top, Sharples (1987-1992); Bolton, Independent Methodist Chapel, Dixon Street (1988-1992); Bolton, St Paul, Deansgate (1987-1990); Turton, Wesleyan Chapel, Birtenshaw (1987-1992); Bolton, Halliwell Road Free Church (1988-1992); Kearsley, New Jerusalem Church, Bolton Road (1987-1992); Bolton, Victoria Hall, Knowsley Street (1987-1992); Horwich, Brunswick Chapel, Victoria Road (1987-1991); Bolton, St Peter (1987-1992); Egerton, Walmsley Unitarian Chapel (1987-1992); Bolton, Methodist Church, Bury Road, Breightmet (1987-1992); Bolton, Holiness Tabernacle, Southend Street (1987-1992); Bolton, Halliwell Methodist Chapel, Harvey Street (1987-1992); Bolton, Castle Hill Methodist Church/St Andrews Methodist Church, Tonge Moor Road (1987-1991); Bolton, St Philip (1987-1992); Bolton, Bethel Church, Albert Place, Clarence Street (1991-1991); Bolton, Methodist School Chapel, St Helens Road (1987-1992); Bolton, St Columba's Church, Ripley Street (1987-1992); Bolton, Rose Hill Congregational Church, Bradford Road (1987-1992); Westhoughton, Westhoughton Methodist Church, Wigan Road (1987-1992); Bolton, Methodist Church, Melbourne Road, Deane (1987-1992); Bolton, Methodist Chapel, Plodder Lane (1987-1990); Bolton, SS Simon & Jude (1987-1992); Farnworth, Our Lady of Lourdes Catholic Church, Plodder Lane (1987-1992); Bolton, Congregational Church, Red Lane (1987-1991); Horwich, Methodist Chapel (1990-1990); Bolton, Methodist Chapel, Chew Moor, Lostock (1987-1992); Bolton, St Thomas of Canterbury (1987-1992); Bolton, Lee Clough Mission, Old Road, Astley Bridge (1987-1992); Bolton Le Moors, Holy Trinity (1987-1990); Bolton, St Ethelbert, Hawthorne Street (1987-1992); Bolton, St William of York, Lever Edge Lane (1987-1992); Bolton, Kingdom Hall, Jethro Street (1987-1992); Westhoughton, Sacred Heart Church, Lord Street (1987-1992); Bolton, St Osmond's Catholic Church (1987-1992); Farnworth, Baptist Chapel (1987-1992); Bolton, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Gaskell Street (1987-1989); Bolton, St Mary, Chorley New Road (1987-1992); Bolton, Kingdom Hall, Moss Bank Way (1987-1990); Bradshaw, St Maxentius (1987-1992); Bromely Cross, St John the Evangelist, The Crescent (1987-1992); Bolton, St Mary, Palace Street (1987-1987); Bolton, St Patrick, Great Moor Street (1987-1992); Bolton, Bolton Pentecostal Church, Crawford Street (1989-1992); Bolton, Independent Methodist Chapel, Chalfont Street (1987-1990); Bolton, St Brendan's R C Church (1987-1992); Bolton, St Gregory the Great (1987-1992); Bolton, Utd Reformed Church, Bury Road (1988-1988); Westhoughton, Independent Methodist Church, Dicconson Lane (1987-1992); Bolton, Holy Infant & St Anthony, Baxendale Street (1987-1992); Bolton, St George the Martyr (1987-1991); Daubhill, Rose Hill Kingdom Hall, Noble St. (1987-1992); Bolton, Claremont, St Georges Road (1987-1992); Little Lever, Kingdom Hall, Mytham Road (1988-1991); Bolton, SS Peter & Paul R C Church (1987-1992); Bolton, St Edmund's Church (1989-1992); Bolton, St Mary the Virgin, Deane Parish Church (1987-1992); Bolton, St Thomas, Dixon Green (1987-1991); Farnworth, All Saints (1989-1992); Farnworth & Kearsley Parish Church, St John The Evangelist (1987-1992); Farnworth, St Peter (1987-1992); Bolton, St Michael, Great Lever (1987-1992); Bolton, St Luke, Halliwell (1987-1992); Bolton, St Margaret, Halliwell (1987-1992); Bolton, St Paul, Halliwell (1987-1992); Bolton, St Peter, Halliwell (1987-1992); Bolton, St Thomas, Halliwell (1987-1992); Bolton, Smithills Hall Chapel (1987-1992); Harwood, Christ Church (1987-1992); Bolton, Christ Church, Heaton (1987-1992); Horwich, Holy Trinity Church (1987-1992); Horwich, St Catherine (1987-1992); Horwich, St Elizabeth (1987-1992); Kearsley, St Stephen (1987-1992); Bolton, St Stephen, Lever Bridge (1987-1992); Little Lever, St Mathew (1987-1992); Bolton, St Thomas & St John, Lostock (1987-1992); Farnworth, St James, New Bury (1987-1992); Over Hulton, St Andrew (1988-1991); Prestolee, The Holy Trinity Church (1987-1992); Ringley, St Saviours (1987-1992); Bolton, St James, Breightmet (1987-1992); Bolton, St Chad, Tonge Fold (1987-1992); Bolton, St Augustine, Tonge Moor (1987-1992); Bolton, St Aidan, Hall i'th Wood (1987-1992); Breightmet, St John the Evangelist [Top o'th' Moss], Breightmet Dve/Brodick Dve (1987-1990); Walmsley, Christ Church (1987-1992); Westhoughton, St Bartholomew (1987-1992); Westhoughton, St James (1987-1992); Westhoughton, St John, Wingates (1987-1992); Bolton Register Office or Registrar Attended (1987-1992

Thanks to Alan & Mary Walsh, Phil Wharram, Derek Shearson, Colin Wood and John Wogan for the above.

MLFHS: Liverpool area.
The parish church of Liverpool was St. Mary's on the Hill, in the township of Walton on the Hill until 1699. Then Liverpool was designated a separate parish and construction began on St. Peter's, which was consecrated in 1704. The church was on what is now, of
course, Church Street, in the city centre. It was demolished in 1922, and a brass cross in the pavement marks the site of the high altar.

Formby was at that time one of a string of settlements northwards along the Irish Sea Coast. I believe   there is a St. Peters Church there now but I do not know if it was open for business then. As Formby is  only about fifteen miles from Liverpool I imagine somebody looking for work might walk there, as Liverpool was beginning to expand.

With regard to "Popish Marriages", who knows. Your copper bottomed R.C. would not consider marriage before a C. of E. parson as valid, but your lukewarm member, wishing to seem to fit in with the rest of  the community, might, especially if the other party were C. of E.

My Scots Presbyterian grandfather married a Welsh chapel girl in a C. of E. church in 1873, and both they and their children thereafter attended a Presbyterian church. One sometimes wonders at the thought processes of one's ancestors. But I suppose we in turn are storing up problems for our descendants.

MLFHS: Non gen: In the cloud for how long?

Some years ago I attended a talk about the Mormon church and their use of records. The re-baptising/re-marriage of related ancestors is part of their faith. However it was explained that the (dead) person concerned could refuse.

My personal vision is of my now deceased grandmother telling them what they could do with their re-baptism etc. She was a no-nonsense very High Anglican member of the Church of England who even considered a born-again Christian to be suspect! She would have a field day with the Mormons!

As I have my own faith I personally have no problem with anyone's belief in the re-baptism etc.

I attended the FHC at a local Mormon church for a number of years and while they never tried to discuss religion with me I did get the impression that  I  could contribute details from my family history by filling out a form. It may be done differently these days but you would have to be prepared for your ancestors probably being 'taken' (can't remember their word for  it) into the Mormon church.  I have never been a member of that church.

CRRL notice –

Cyndi's List Launches a New Web Site -

A major upgrade to celebrate 15 years of service

EDGEWOOD, WASHINGTON (June 6, 2011) - Cyndi's List is proud to announce
a newly upgraded web site. With improved navigation, a custom database, and a custom administrative interface, the upgrade means that everything will be quicker and easier for both visitors and for the site's owner and administrator, Cyndi Ingle Howells. The upgrade has been done by fusionSpan of Maryland. Their staff worked closely with Cyndi to make improvements and to implement new technology and new ideas designed
specifically for Cyndi's List and for the genealogical community.

Part of the upgrade was made possible by donations from generous users of Cyndi's List. To date, 20% of what was accomplished in the project was thanks to them. Donors have been listed on the web site.

What's New with the Upgrade:

* The front page of the Cyndi's List site has a rolling genealogy news feed and a link to The Cyndi's List Daily, a daily dose of family history news as tagged in Twitter and Facebook. Start each day with the front page of Cyndi's List and read the current genealogy news stories.

* The links are now contained within a database and pages will be dynamically loaded on each visit.

* The custom database and administration interface means that maintaining the link list will be much easier for Cyndi, which ultimately benefits the user with faster and more frequent updates.

* The new interface means that the backlog of uncategorized links can be processed much faster. The goal is to get the entire backlog done by the end of this year.

* New links will be reviewed, approved, and categorized within 24-72
hours after submission by visitors.

* Updates made to Cyndi's List will be immediately available to the public.

* Previous to the upgrade, the "What's New" page and mailing list post contained only new links submitted by visitors. The new "What's New" page and e-mail will contain those, as well as links added to the site during the day by Cyndi, *and* existing links that have been updated throughout the site (new addresses, updated descriptions, etc.).

* Across the site links have been labeled with graphics as "new" or "updated" when appropriate. With the upgrade these will now be text-based notations (easily spotted in green), which means that you can search on a page for "new" or "updated" with the Edit>Find function in
your web browser.

* Now sub-categories within a category heading each have their own page. And each page displays 20 links, with pagination in place to go to the next page and so on. This means there will be a lot less scrolling through long pages as in the past. Shorter pages mean faster load time in the browser as well.

* Intuitive navigation at the top of the category makes it easy to find your way to previous category headings.

* The number of links within each category/sub-category is displayed at the top right on each page.

* Each of the U.S. counties (more than 3,100) now has a designated page of its own.

* URLs (addresses) for the pages have changed so bookmarks, favorites, and links to Cyndi's List will need to be updated.

* Opportunities to shop, support, or donate are highlighted on each page.

What Has Stayed the Same?

* The category and sub-category names are all the same.

* Related Categories are highlighted at the top right on each category.

* The layout and format of the links are the same.

* The policies, procedures, and disclaimers for maintaining the link list are the same.

* The Cyndi's List Mailing List will still distribute a daily What's New e-mail and a daily Link Activity e-mail. However, the What's New e-mail will contain information about all new and updated links.

* You can still follow Cyndi's List on Facebook and Twitter.

* The purpose and intent of Cyndi's List is to be a free jumping-off
point for your daily genealogical research.

* Cyndi's List remains free for everyone to use just as it has for the past 15 years.

* This is still just a one-woman show!

"I started doing genealogy research in earnest back in 1998 and Cyndi's List has always been one of my very favorite websites. It is on my 'Go To' list because I always find so much good information there." -- Kay F.

"I've relied on your website as THE best resource on the 'net to help with my research..." --Jan J.

"Where can you get at all things genealogical in one fell swoop?  Very one knows it's CyndisList.com. Every genealogist who uses the web MUST use Cyndi's List." --Polly K.

About CyndisList.com - CyndisList.com is the world's largest one-woman family history resource, with more than 300,000 categorized links for genealogical research. For
more than 15 years Cyndi's List has helped hundreds of thousands of people with their online journey to trace their family history. The site averages 275,000 unique visitors and 5,000,000 page hits every month. Cyndi's List has won numerous awards and consistently remains one of the top genealogical portals for beginners, intermediate, and veteran
researchers.
MLFHS: Toolbar for Chrome

I think this is a case of being too successful for your own good. Since CyndisList has no focus beyond the site having a genealogical connection, it is condemned to covering a massive number of links and finding what you want consequently has become more difficult. It remains a useful site when you are looking for information on an unfamiliar topic, but more localised lists and toolbars are much easier to use for day-to-day work. There is certainly a place for both, but given how difficult it is for me to keep around 500 links current, the work involved in CyndisList's 305,508 (as of today) strikes terror into my heart!

MLFHS: What's new in the last week on the Lancashire OPC

Hi listers, Here's what's new: 7 June 2011

Baptisms, Marriages and Burials 1683 to 1730 and Marriages 1754 to 1784 and 1813 to 1837 from St Mary the Virgin in the Parish of Goosnargh

Marriages 1925 to 1938 from the Parish of Great Sankey

Marriages 1837 to 1861 from St David, Haigh

Baptisms 1892 to 1911 from the Church of St Peter in the Parish of Hindley

Baptisms 1663 to 1673 and Burials 1664 to 1673 from the Parish of Hoole

Baptisms 1753 to 1795 and Burials 1695 to 1712 and 1737 to 1753 from the Church of the Holy Trinity, Horwich

Baptisms 1751 to 1765 and 1779 to 1785 from New Chapel Independent, in the Parish of Horwich

Baptisms, Marriages and Burials 1712 to 1731 from St Michael in the Parish of Kirkham

Baptisms 1827 to 1836 from All Saints in the Town of Wigan

6 June 2011

Marriages 1893 to 1901 from St St John the Evangelist, in the Parish of Farnworth with Kearsley

Banns 1865 to 1884 from Christ Church, Fulwood in Preston

Baptisms 1839 to 1856 from St Thomas, Eccleston, in the Parish of St Helens

Baptisms 1820 to 1822 from St John in the Town of Preston

Baptisms 1880 to 1890 from the Church of St Thomas in the Town of Preston

4 June 2011

Baptisms 1881 to 1907 from Stamford St Wesleyan Methodist in the Parish of Ashton under Lyne

Banns 1884 to 1900 from the Parish of Caton

Burials 1784 to 1808 from the Parish of Church Kirk

Baptisms 1793 to 1812 and Burials 1595 to 1657 and 1794 to 1812 from the Parish of Cockerham

Burials 1811 to 1825 from the Parish of Colton

3 June 2011

Banns and Marriages 1900 from the Church of St Paul, Blackpool

Baptisms 1819 to 1837 from Duke's Alley Congregation of Protestant Dissenters, Bolton

Burials 1841 to 1900 from the Church of St James, Briercliffe

Burials 1861 to 1876 from the Parish of Burtonwood

2 June 2011

Baptisms 1864 to 1873, Marriages 1852 to 1856 and Burials 1651 to 1652 from the Church of St Mary the Virgin in the Parish of Blackburn

Baptisms 1892 to 1899 from All Saints, Nova Scotia in the Parish of Blackburn

Baptisms 1800 to 1837 from Chapel St Independent in the Parish of Blackburn

1 June 2011

Marriages 1868 to 1870 from the Church of St Michael-in-the-Hamlet, in the district of Aigburth, Liverpool

Baptisms 1873 to 1896 from the Church of St Mary, in the district of Hale, Liverpool

Marriages 1861 to 1914 from the Church of the Holy Innocents, Kensington, Liverpool

Marriages 1802 and 1803 from the Church of St Nicholas, Liverpool

Marriages 1835 to 1837 from the Church of St John Haymarket, Liverpool

Baptisms 1737 to 1754 and 1832 to 1833 and Burials 1737 to 1748 from the Church of St Peter, Liverpool

Baptisms 1935 to 1937 and Marriages 1913 to 1939 from the Church of St Thomas, Seaforth, Liverpool

Baptisms 1884 to 1893 from the Church of St John the Baptist, Toxteth, Liverpool

Go direct to the relevant Parish from here: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html

or search the whole database from here (The searchable database was last updated on 6th May 2011):
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Happy hunting, Sharon in OZ

MLFHS: Memorial Inscriptions - New data

I have just uploaded some 380 memorial inscriptions covering some 1298 names to the memorial inscription database in the member area. These all relate to the New Jerusalem Chapel, Bolton Street, Salford and came originally from the Owen MSS.

They cover burials 1813-1876 though all but a handful date before 1854.

Hope someone gets lucky with these. The database now contains 2858 memorials covering 8902 names in 17 burial grounds.

MLFHS: Speeds maps (Speeds is a company's name)


Does any one know where I can get colour copies of Speeds map of Lancashire and Yorkshire?
Response -   Google tells me that there's a copy of it at -
  http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/oldmap/

MLFHS: Genes Reunited
 
Totally agree, it's just that bright solid have two bites of the cherry with FMP and GR, with the latter being trumpetted has having such a wonderful collection of records etc. As far as I can tell all of them already on FMP. To the uninitiated the fact that GR had the 1911 was a new supplier - in fact of course we all know different.

Like all of us I guess I use and pay for several suppliers, all with something slightly different to offer, admittedly all had the E/W census to 1901, with 1911 coming onstream later.

Without these commercials companies I wouldn't be able to do 90 percent of what I do now from the comfort of home. At present am at a friend's who's having a bathroom refitted. Couldn't go and research even if I wanted to, but can easily distract myself with Ancestry etc.

The hobby is a life saver. It's only occasionally that I get penny pinching!

FMP is Find My Past; GR is Genes Reunited. I have not tried, and await your evaluation.

MLFHS: Genes Reunited (a comment from an MLFHS member)
 
My heartfelt apologies, Lynne, and all kind Scots, I hadn't really mean to insult a whole nation or descendants.

Unfortunately I really do believe the bright solid company, who own or run Scotland's People, Find My Past as well as Genes Reunited, look on its customers as cash cows. And if they don't then it sure feels like it!

For all I know bright solid doesn't have a Scot on its board, and could be owned and run by little green men from Mars, or the man in the Moon!

MLFHS: Non gen: Accessing my own health records (Can be done in UK with its universal coverage)

I have been reading this thread with great interest.

I was born in 1958 and left England, never to live there again, in 1968. I was looked after medically by our family doctor who certainly can no longer be practising. Would any one like to comment on whether my records might still be in existence and, if yes, where they might be?

I am surprised that the records are kept so long in England. Here in Germany, where I live now, the records had to kept for 10 years until a few years ago and then the ruling was changed to 30 years.

MLFHS: Genes Reunited plus (What the company says of itself)

Geneology is only part of the game! Who we are-

*brightsolid* began life in 1995 as Scotland Online and is a leading UK independent provider of IT business services to large public and private sector organisations.

We help our clients to design and implement high volume, high availability, high performance online products and services, and have done so successfully since we became one of the pioneering Internet companies of the mid 1990s. bright*solid* has two divisions, online publishing and online technologies.

*brightsolid’s* online publishing division has significant expertise In building innovative online businesses around people and places.  It manages ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk, a partnership between the General Register Office for Scotland, the National Archives of Scotland and the Court of the Lord Lyon. In 2007, bright*solid* acquired findmypast.com, *an online family history site.  findmypast.com was the first website to put the complete birth, marriage and death indexes for England and Wales online.  The company also successfully launched *ancestorsonboard.com*, the online passenger
lists records resource, for The National Archives in January 2007. It included details of over 24 million travellers, including the historic details of the Titanic’s maiden voyage.

*brightsolid *recently launched the group’s first, and Scotland’s only, online magazine ‘Discover My Past Scotland’.Headquartered in Dundee, the company is owned by the publishers D.C. Thomson and has offices in Edinburgh and London.

MLFHS: Monument Inscriptions  (Americans read as Headstones)

I haven't seen any replies to your enquiry.  I am certainly no expert on Manchester Churches and Burial Grounds, but from the description it could be one of two churches,

The Catholic Church of St. Mary, Mulberry Street (known as "The Hidden Gem"), which is located just off Deansgate.  Geoff Edge's Guide to the Burial Grounds of Manchester & Salford confirms there are no MI listings known for this church.  The burials date from 1816-1829 and records from 1816-1825 are held at Manchester Central Library.  Do these dates fit with what you know?

Alternatively there is (or was) St. Mary's Parsonage, also close to Deansgate.  Again Geoff's book confirms burials took place there from 1754 to 1871 but in this case there is a Memorial Inscription listing of 997 graves.  Both burial records and MIs are held at MCL.

CRRL input -
[Genealib] Property Research
These are in addition to the usual drill for tracing ownership of a property:
It's worth searching for a street address in Google Books, as they have quite a few directories of professions and trades, so you might find information on a previous owner or renter.
Also, the same thing for any databases of your local newspapers. I found a real estate ad for the house later purchased by a physician I'm researching. The ad said the house had a separate office and would be ideal for a doctor. Apparently the physician agreed! 
Subject: [Genealib] Property Research
I'm going to be doing a workshop on "How to Research the History of Your House" in October.  I'm working with a local paranormal research group who will follow my session with one about how to use that information in your paranormal investigation.
I was wondering if anyone has done something similiar and if they have tips/tricks they are willing to share for research help.  I have put together some, but just want to see if there is anything I am missing. 

MLFHS: Beer sellers.

I had occasion to check on my grandfather who allegedly kept a pub in Liverpool in the 1880s. He was not listed in the trade directory. I subsequently found him as licensed to sell beer and cider only. Apparently keepers of mere beer houses, of which there were many, did not rank as trade or profession, whereas publicans did. This may differ in directories printed by other publishers. I found my grandfather in the records of the licensing justices which were held in the research room at Liverpool archives, perhaps
Manchester also holds such. They contained additional information such as fines, and if you can access them you can see whether your ancestor had a clean sheet or not.
 
 MLFHS: Beer sellers.

There was some discussion on this subject the past. Briefly a beer seller could open his own front room to customers and sell them  ale/beer that he had made himself.

Some of these establishments only lasted a short period ---some for generations-especially in the countryside, where they were often attached to cottages in the village.

A publican sold wines and spirits as well, and was subject to inspection by the Customs & excise people. (Tax), so more constant.